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Author Topic: Pedra Furada rock art dates challenged  (Read 1482 times)
Mikey Brass
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« on: July 03, 2003, 03:17:24 PM »

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/1976085

It does not, however, state whether the latest round of testing results will be published and, if so, where.
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Best, Mikey Brass
Ph.D. student, Institute of Archaeology, UCL
Website: http://www.antiquityofman.com

- !ke e: /xarra //ke
("Diverse people unite": Motto of the South African Coat of Arms, 2002)
Jacques Cinq-Mars
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2003, 06:21:44 AM »

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/1976085

It does not, however, state whether the latest round of testing results will be published and, if so, where.

Thanks for passing this on, even if this short piece is, in my view, rather misleading! Whether it is so because of the inability of the “science writer” to comprehend the exact nature of the archaeological  (in this case, Pedra Furada’s) record, or because he was misinformed, led astray, disinformed, etc. by the researchers he consulted, is for you to decide.

At any rate, it is a good occasion to comment on a few rather incorrect statements.

Quote
ROCK OF AGES
Method developed at A&M challenges claims over cave paintings
By ERIC BERGER
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle Science Writer



HOW PLASMA
EXTRACTION WORKS
• Scientists must delicately collect the limited quantities of carbon embedded in inorganic paints on cave walls to date them with radiocarbon methods.

• Texas A&M researchers have developed a method that injects oxygen heated to 300 degrees into a pigment sample, knocking out carbon without destroying it.

• The method allows such small samples of paint to be dated that determining the age of an ancient cave painting is now possible.
They are pictures of people, deer, llamas, crocodiles and even pumas.

There are more than 350 stone walls filled with such paintings at Pedra Furada, a prehistoric site in a remote area of Brazil. They also may be the oldest cave paintings ever found in the Americas, and their discovery could radically change scientists' understanding of how and when the first people came to this hemisphere.

The problem is, a Texas scientist says the paintings, drawn with charcoal and other pigments, are not 30,000 years old, as a team of archaeologists led by Brazilian Niéde Guidon there claim, but just a few thousand years old.

For starters, the title is just another example of pure, unaldurated hype (or, perhaps, just plain confusion) in which the method(s), the material(s) being dated, and the purpose(s) of dating are completely mixed up. In all fairness to the author, it reflects well large portions of the article.

As far as I can recollect,, the Brazilian “team” has never claimed (on the basis of actual evidence) that the “paintings” dated back to 30 ka.  The bulk of the rock art (paintings) identified at Pedra Furada – but for one exception, see below) -- admittedly spans the Holocene age and has been presented as such – with dates -- by the Brazilian researchers.  Whether the Brazilian dates are based on a method that is in need of refinement is another story altogether and, for all I know, the Texas A&M new method may, indeed be more accurate in terms of “contamination proof” (as it were) than others, when dealing  with, primarily, mineral pigments.

The exception I mentioned above consists of a rock slab or tablet fragment that exhibits (culturally) coloured markings and that likely fell down from the shelter wall. It happens to have been found buried in a level that has been dated in the 16-17 ka range, and this from charcoal remains coming from a hearth (?) and asscociated with artefacts.  Assuming reliable chrono-stratigraphic controls, this implies that there were people at Pedra Furada who were, at or before 16-17 ka, into decorating their rock shelter(s).  And unless it can be demonstrated that the painted rock slab and/or the charcoal date is wrong, a human presence in the Brazilian Nordeste, at the end the of the Upper Pleniglacial,  remains a perfectly valid proposition.

Many of the other dates (close to 50 of them) that have served to make Pedra Furada controversial, have nothing directly to do with “paintings”. They were, for the most part, obtained from charcoal extracted from features identified (by the “Brazilian team”) as “hearths”, and they range from the end of the Upper Pleniclacial to around 50 ka. Furthermore, some of these well dated depositional units also happened to have yielded stone artefacts that, unfortunately, happen not to be “readable” by many, if not most North American (i.e., US) archaeologists.

In other words, trying to tie in the admittedly real difficulties in direct rock art/mineral pigment dating to the actual full cultural sequence that has been proposed for Pedra Furada is, at the very lest a rather inelegant red herring of a type that doesn’t serve the credibility of interdisciplinary palaeoanthropology.

This said, I am also looking forward to reading an actual paper on these recent dating advances.

Jacques Cinq-Mars

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Mikey Brass
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2003, 03:50:05 PM »

Dear Jacques,

The old rock art paintings being referred to are, I believe, the dates proposed by:

Walter Elias Feria Ayta, Henrique Hamaguchi, Niède Guidon, Eliany S. La Silva, Silvia Maranca and Oswaldo Baffa Filho: ?Some Evidence of A Date of First Humans to Arrive in Brazil? (Journal of Archaeological Science, 2003, 30, 351-354)

Two critiques of the article's content are at:
http://www.thehallofmaat.com/maat/read.php?f=1&i=92903&t=92903
and
http://www.thehallofmaat.com/maat/read.php?f=1&i=93231&t=93231
(the latter is mine)

I have the following from Doug Weller regarding the latest news story:
------------------------------------
 I found this on Usenet:
From: garyhard@earthlink.net (Dr.GH)
"There is no particular need to question Rowe's methods, they are mostly well established C14 methods. His group's use of a low temerature oxygen plasma to extract carbon from rock art pigments has been in the literature (that I know of anyway) since 1990 at the San Diego Museum of Man Rock Art '90 Symposia (Published 1992 Rock Art Papers, San Diego Museum of Man Papers #28:121-128 ). There is nothing that is very difficult in the method. The most likely problems are the same as for any C14 date: contamination. For example, recent fungal, bacterial or even lichen growth might alter the dated material. We are talking very small samples. The method of
oxygen plasma extraction is not an significant issue, but sample collection and pre-extraction procedure could be important."
------------------------------------

Like you, I await formal publication to be able to evaluate the claims in detail.
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Best, Mikey Brass
Ph.D. student, Institute of Archaeology, UCL
Website: http://www.antiquityofman.com

- !ke e: /xarra //ke
("Diverse people unite": Motto of the South African Coat of Arms, 2002)
Jacques Cinq-Mars
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2003, 04:39:08 PM »

Dear Jacques,

The old rock art paintings being referred to are, I believe, the dates proposed by:

Walter Elias Feria Ayta, Henrique Hamaguchi, Niède Guidon, Eliany S. La Silva, Silvia Maranca and Oswaldo Baffa Filho: ?Some Evidence of A Date of First Humans to Arrive in Brazil? (Journal of Archaeological Science, 2003, 30, 351-354)

Two critiques of the article's content are at:
http://www.thehallofmaat.com/maat/read.php?f=1&i=92903&t=92903
and
http://www.thehallofmaat.com/maat/read.php?f=1&i=93231&t=93231
(the latter is mine)

I have the following from Doug Weller regarding the latest news story:

<snip>

Ah! This is what happens when one relies on low grade, misleading science reporting in attempting to wax eloquent. Exactly the point I was trying to make. One gets all confused. All that is referred to in the piece under consideration is Pedra Furada, not the Toca da Bastiana rockshelter.

But I suppose I should have known better and followed my own advice. As a matter of fact, there was a clincher: the anomalous reference to calcite coating. Such a feature should not be present in the larger sandstone region of the Park where Pedra Furada is located. I unfortunately missed it. As, admittedly, I have missed the JAS paper, and as I have been neglectful in monitoring the Hall of Maat!

Therefore, I won't comment further on this "dating" issue, until I will have managed to read the original Watanabe & al. paper, and until I get precise understanding of the so-called debate, i.e., one that does not target a tree in order to flatten a forest

Jacques Cinq-Mars

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Jacques Cinq-Mars
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2003, 03:53:32 PM »

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/1976085

It does not, however, state whether the latest round of testing results will be published and, if so, where.

Here they are.

Jacques Cinq-Mars

Quote
Marvin W. Rowe and Karen L. Steelman. 2003. Comment on "some evidence of a date of first humans to arrive in Brazil". Journal of Archaeological Science  30(10) :1349-1351.

Copyright © 2003 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.


Abstract:
J Archaeol Sci 30 (2003) 351 reported extremely interesting dates on a calcite layer covering a pictograph at the Toca da Bastiana rock shelter within the Serra da Capivara National Park, Piaui, Brazil. Thermoluminescence and electron paramagnetic resonance ages indicate that humans were present in Brazil prior to 35 ky ago. We report radiocarbon dates for rock paintings at the same rock shelter and other nearby shelters that contradict Watanabe et al.'s results.

Keywords: First Americans; Radiocarbon dating; Calcium oxalate; Toca da Bastiana, Piauí, Brazil; Rock art
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Mikey Brass
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2003, 06:28:08 PM »

Thanks, Jacques. I read the prior paper and it will be intrigung to evaluate the counter argument. Essentially a new battle front has opened up.
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Best, Mikey Brass
Ph.D. student, Institute of Archaeology, UCL
Website: http://www.antiquityofman.com

- !ke e: /xarra //ke
("Diverse people unite": Motto of the South African Coat of Arms, 2002)
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