The (new?) Moravian Venus

[Daryl Habel]

Look what showed up in the news today.

http://www.slovakspectator.sk/clanok-17719.html

It doesn't appear to be the 'unknown figurine' discussed in this Board a couple of topics past, but it sure looks to be of similar conception.

Dar 

[lagarvelho]

Dar:

It looks very similar to some Russian "Venuses" too.   IOW, the style is hardly "new", even for Paleolithic art.
Anne G

[Daryl Habel]

There certainly are a number of head-scratching statements made in the Slovak Spectator, beginning with the first paragraph telling me that "the second period of the Stone Age, known as the Paleolithic Age".  

What was the first period?  Somehow, I seem to have overlooked it all these years.  Then there is the questionable bit about modern humans having "double the intelligence and development" of Neanderthals.   And magic rituals which we can "bearly" imagine.

But all that silliness aside, this figurine seems to have a chequered past history.  Supposedly ploughed up from a field near Moravany nad Vahom in the 1920s or 1930s (doesn't anyone know?), "after much ado" it later traveled to Paris before finally coming back home to Slovakia.  Yet somehow, according to the Slovak Spectator, it has been endowed with a "carbon dating analysis" of "22,860 BC, give or take 400 years".

One has to wonder how this was determined if they can't even place the discovery date, let alone wonder how it has been determined that it originally came from the Moravany nad Vahom site, or if it is genuine.

It "looks" more genuine than the previously discussed "unknown figurine" (which apparently is not),  but the lady apparently has arrived in the Slovak National Museum without much of a certifiable background, according to this news story.

Dar

[Jacques Cinq-Mars]

Dar & Anne,

It seems that the Slovak Spectator piece is just another "rehashing" exercise based on poorly digested perfectly genuine information.

From what I have been able to find out, the object is kosher and fits perfectly well (stylistically speaking) in the larger, well documented Central European Gravettian sample and, therefore, time range. As for information concerning a more precise dating, it can be found in:

OTTE, M.  et J.K. Kozlowski (éd.), Le Paléolithique Supérieur Européen, Bilan quinquennal 1991-1996, U.I.S.P.P. - Commission VIII (réunion de Forli, septembre 1996), 1996, 380 p., fig. et tabl. ERAUL N°76.

I do not have access to the actual publication, but the pertinent Moravany dates (based on the above) can be found by clicking HERE, finding the radiocarbon list, and doing a search for Moravany.

Jacques

[Jacques Cinq-Mars]

Just a brief addendum to this "Moravian Venus" story, based on information I have just received from M. Mussi.

The Moravany Venus (proper name) apparently comes from the collection of a "gendarme". Said collection, made around 1930, in ploughed fields that happened to disturb a series of rich UP deposits (presumably the ones referred to in the Otte and Kozlowski publication mentioned in my earlier message). The object was then sent to the Abbé Breuil, in Paris, for authentification, and later returned to Slovakia. End of (an old) story.

Jacques

[Daryl Habel]

Jacques,

Thanks for clearing away questions on the Moravany Venus background.  I'm  happy to see the lady is of good reputation.

Dar