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Author Topic: Complementary dates from Chauvet.  (Read 5688 times)
Jacques Cinq-Mars
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2005, 10:36:45 PM »

Hi Jacques,

Very sorry but I do not read or speak French.  I will try to wade through the cognates and what translations I can find...

This may take a little while.

Please, don't do this. If you're patient enough, I will have something for you tomorrow or the day after.

Quote
I think we are in a basic agreement that specific local climate conditions and the geographic features that influence them would need to be considered whether or not we agree with what those might be.

Yes, both local and regional data sets dealing with, among other things, topography, hydrography, palaeoecology (sensu lato), etc. As for the matter of agreement, well, ...

Jacques
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Dale Hoogeveen
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2005, 10:18:48 AM »

Hi Jacques,

Sorry to have missed your note.

Your offer is very generous.  Thank-you,  I will wait.

Dale


Please, don't do this. If you're patient enough, I will have something for you tomorrow or the day after.

Yes, both local and regional data sets dealing with, among other things, topography, hydrography, palaeoecology (sensu lato), etc. As for the matter of agreement, well, ...

Jacques
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Peace
Dale Hoogeveen
Jacques Cinq-Mars
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Posts: 1156



« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2005, 09:14:37 PM »

Hi Jacques,

Sorry to have missed your note.

Your offer is very generous.  Thank-you,  I will wait.

Dale

No problem/you're welcome. Here it is:

Quote
Pour le 14C (AMS), les prélèvements sur les stalagmites se font à la micro-perceuse (diamètre : 0,8 mm). Deux à quatre trous sont suffisants et peuvent être faits latéralement sur un même niveau de croissance, ce qui représente une durée de croissance variant de 1 à 5 ans. La méthode employée est détaillée dans [21,22]. Les incertitudes varient de 0,4 à 0,8 pMC (% modern carbon). Les âges issus des mesures de radiocarbone sur la calcite sont corrigés d’une proportion de carbone mort (carbone issu principalement de la dissolution du calcaire) et calibrés [21,22,33]. Cette proportion avait été estimée à 4% en comparant les âges U/Th et 14C de la stalagmite Chau-stm1, obtenus lors d’une précédente étude [21,22]. Seule la stalagmite Chau-stm4 a été datée uniquement par 14C, ainsi que le sommet de Chau-stm1.

For 14C (AMS), stalagmites sampling is done with a micro drill (0.8 mm, diameter). Two to four holes are sufficient and can be done laterally along an individual growth layer which corresponds to [about] 1 - 5 years of growth time. The [processing] method is described in detail in [21, 22). The levels/degrees of uncertainty vary between 0.4 to 0.8 pMS (% of modern carbon)The ages obtained by these radiocarbon measurements on calcite are corrected by subtracting a percentage of dead carbon (resulting primarily from the dissolution of the limestone), and calibrated. [21,22,33]. This percentage had [previously] been estimated at 4%, based on a comparison of the U/Th and 14C ages of Chau-stm1 [Chauvet-stalagmite 1]. The only samples dated by 14C alone were Chau-stm4 and and the top of Chau-stm1.

** The references [21,22,33] noted in the original text are:

[21] D. Genty, M. Massault, M. Gilmour, A. Baker, S. Verheyden, E. Keppens, Calculation of past dead carbon proportion and variability by the comparison of AMS 14C and TIMS U/Th ages on two Holocene stalagmites, Radiocarbon 41 (1999) 251–270.

[22] D. Genty, A. Baker, M. Massault, C. Procror, M. Gilmour, E. Pons-Branchu, B. Hamelin, Dead carbon in stalagmites: limestone paleodissolution versus ageing of Soil Organic Matter – Implications for 13C variations in stalagmites, Geochim. Cosmochim. Acta 65 (2001) 3443–3457.

[33] M. Stuiver, R.S. Kra (Eds.), Calibration issue, Proc. 12th Int. 14C Conf. Radiocarbon 28 (2B) (1986) 805-1030.

Quote
De par la rareté du matériel, il était indispensable d’utiliser les méthodes de datation les plus précises possibles, comme la méthode U/Th par spectrométrie de masse par thermo-ionisation (TIMS). Celle-ci nécessite l’emploi de petits échantillons de calcite (0,3 à 2 g) et le fait de compter directement les isotopes de l’uranium et du thorium sur un spectromètre de masse augmente la précision analytique (entre 1 et 2% à 2 r pour des échantillons « propres »).

Due to the rarity of the material, it was essential to use the most precise dating method possible, such as U/Th by mass thermo-ionisation spectrometry (TIMS) [30]. This method requires the use of small calcite samples (0.3 to 2 g), and the direct counting of uranium and thorium isotopes with a mass spectrometer increases the analytical [level of] precision (between 1 and 2% to 2r in the case of “clean” samples)”

** Reference provided for TIMS

[30] W.X. Li, J. Lundberg, A.P. Dickin, D.C. Ford, H.P. Schwarcz, R. McNutt, D. Williams, High-precision mass-spectrometric uranium-series dating of cave deposits and implications for palaeoclimate studies, Nature 339 (1989) 534–536.

Let me know if you need additonal info.

Jacques
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