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Author Topic: the Shaft of the Dead Man: new interpretation  (Read 3439 times)
trehinp
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« on: April 26, 2005, 03:49:07 PM »

There are quite a few interpretations on the "the Shaft of the Dead Man" scene.

Most call upon religious or chamanistic theories, one at least resorts to some psychoanalitical basis of the whole scene.

Tonight, in a show that had absolutely nothing to do with prehistoric art, Professor  Michel Jouvet, one of the
pioneers of research on paradoxical sleep, analysed this "Shaft of the Dead Man" scene in an original manner:

As most of you will remember the man in front of the bison has an erection. Michel Jouvet explained that all men do have sleep time erection while in the phase of paradoxical sleep. In fact that is even a definite sign that the person was dreaming.

He showed the "Shaft of the Dead Man" scene and said that it was very likely a depiction of a man dreaming of a hunt with some strange mixtures of elements such as the bird on a spear at the bottom.

I felt that this was quite an interesting interpretation...

What do you think ?

Yours sincerely.

Paul
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Paul Trehin
Jacques Cinq-Mars
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2005, 02:51:31 PM »

There are quite a few interpretations on the "the Shaft of the Dead Man" scene.

Most call upon religious or chamanistic theories, one at least resorts to some psychoanalitical basis of the whole scene.

Tonight, in a show that had absolutely nothing to do with prehistoric art, Professor  Michel Jouvet, one of the
pioneers of research on paradoxical sleep, analysed this "Shaft of the Dead Man" scene in an original manner:

As most of you will remember the man in front of the bison has an erection. Michel Jouvet explained that all men do have sleep time erection while in the phase of paradoxical sleep. In fact that is even a definite sign that the person was dreaming.

He showed the "Shaft of the Dead Man" scene and said that it was very likely a depiction of a man dreaming of a hunt with some strange mixtures of elements such as the bird on a spear at the bottom.

I felt that this was quite an interesting interpretation...

What do you think ?

Yours sincerely.

Paul


Dear Paul,

Interesting, yes, but new, original, and relevant, I wonder.

First, from having had a long and lasting interest in northern (Eurasian and North American) people ethnographies (i.e., published material) and from my own field observations, I can assure you that the association or equation between shamanism and dreams/visions is pervasive and is characterized by a broad range of expressions. I should add that this is not restricted to the Arctic and the Subarctic.

As an aside, I can also assure you -- from personal experience -- that “paradoxical sleep”, even if it is indicative of a “dreaming” state does not necessarily result in one having an erection!

Second, the latter condition can also occur, as you know, in a variety of other circumstances including ones involving various forms of asphyxia. and prolonged suffocation that may or may not be accompanied by various types and degrees of hallucination. Various allusions to such “experiences” can be found in the ethnographic literature and, more specifically, in accounts of Inuit mythology for which I unfortunately have, at this time, no specific reference at hand. Just working from bad memory, here.

Third, as all “spelunkers” (should) know, quite a few (karstic) caves or parts of caves can be rather dangerous due to excessive levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) which, after a prolonged exposure, can lead to various levels of intoxication and asphyxia. I believe that such is the case at Chauvet and Cussac in which the present day levels of CO2 are such that they have been identified as an obstacle to access of long duration on the part of the researchers. Note, however, that such conditions are likely to have been variable over time, depending on the extent of obstructions to (fresh) air circulation. In the case of Cussac and Chauvet, for example, it is easy to imagine that the length of -- likely recurrent -- “residence” or occupation needed for the production of the numerous engravings and/or paintings would have required much lower, i.e., safer levels of CO2. But one can always find in (just below, but connected to) relatively safe open systems or networks, spatial components, such as deep, bottom-sealed shafts (and, at times, associated chambers) that acts as CO2 traps or sinks.

Unless I am wrong, this is what the Lascaux “Puits” (“Shaft”) is all about and, as such, allows one to come up with a scenario which, while resembling the one you report, may have little or nothing to do with the formal characteristics “paradoxical sleep”.

And to get back to shamanism, it is possible to suggest that the “Puits” may have been, because of its likely hallucinogenic potential, a special place for special people in search of special experiences, i.e. “dreams”. In many traditional hunting-gathering societies, such individual, if successful in their quest, are perceived by their community as endowed with the kinds of “powers” that are specific to shamans.

End of stream of (un)consciousness!

Jacques

PS  For all I know, some of the above has already been brought up by someone, somewhere.






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trehinp
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2005, 02:13:26 PM »

Thanks Jacques,

You are right I sould have put a question mark after the expression "New interpretation".

Concerning Jouvet's interpretation, my short description didn't provide a fair defense of his analysis.

The aspect of his theory that is different compared to other "dream based" links to religious or shamanic behaviors is that he based his analysis on some sound neurological studies of paradoxical sleep. I felt that getting away from the pure anthropological analysis was interesting.

As far as this specific "Shaft of the dead man" scene is concerned, I am still looking for a publication that seriously addresses the following questions:

Was the naturalistic drawing representing the bull/bison contemporaneous of the more sketchy man figure?

If yes, can we tell that they were made by a single artist or by two different ones ?

I tend to think that the styles are so different that either they were made attwo different periods or by two different artists.

I'd be glad to find answers to these questions...

Yours sincerely.

Paul
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Paul Trehin
Jacques Cinq-Mars
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2005, 05:10:36 PM »

Thanks Jacques,

You are right I sould have put a question mark after the expression "New interpretation".

Concerning Jouvet's interpretation, my short description didn't provide a fair defense of his analysis.

The aspect of his theory that is different compared to other "dream based" links to religious or shamanic behaviors is that he based his analysis on some sound neurological studies of paradoxical sleep. I felt that getting away from the pure anthropological analysis was interesting.

Well, not having been there, I am certainly not in a position to come up with my own opinion of Professor Jouvet’s interpretation, but I strongly believe that the leading component in any serious statement on the historical, human of parietal/rock art has to be first and foremost anthropologically based or derived. Neuroscience, regardless of its promising technologically facilitated advances, has yet to move beyond the generation of (admittedly useful, at times) very fragmentary data gathering into the realm of synthetic, palaeoanthropologically sound/coherent hypotheses. And when it attempts to do so (from what little I have read), it is by making use of, by falling back on very run-of-the-mill anthropological crutches.

Quote
As far as this specific "Shaft of the dead man" scene is concerned, I am still looking for a publication that seriously addresses the following questions:

Was the naturalistic drawing representing the bull/bison contemporaneous of the more sketchy man figure?

If yes, can we tell that they were made by a single artist or by two different ones ?

I tend to think that the styles are so different that either they were made attwo different periods or by two different artists.

I'd be glad to find answers to these questions...

Yours sincerely.

Paul

Those are all valid questions which (sorry to insist) are unlikely to be answered by neuroscience.

Cordialement,

Jacques
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